And it's not a diatribe!
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons rules made party creation simpler. The class abilities were complimentary and exclusive. Magic Users sucked at melee, but fighters couldn't cast spells. Both Clerics and Magic Users could use spells, but they were different spells.
So your party needed one of each of the basic classes (fighter, magic user and cleric minimum plus athief er archer) and could be enhanced with the variant classes (you NEEDED a Magic User, and could probably use an Illusionist).
Playing GURPS in a fantasy setting broke that. A fully armored knight in the service of God could also be a powerful wizard. At least if the GM gave out enough points... Then there was a lack of distinction between spell casters. If you cast spells, you are a mage. No distinction between Clerics, Magic Users, Illusionists, Druids or even Rangers and Paladins.
No distinction in the rules at least. You can recreate them easily during character creation.
The old AD&D party roles don't go away running GURPS. You still need someone who can swing a melee weapon, you need an offensive spellcaster and a support spellcaster.
Since the rules don't force the distinction, and players being what they are, what I ended up with in GURPS fantasy settings was amazingly homogenous characters. Every one was essentially a fighter/magic user/cleric. Because your points were limited, what we ended up with was party of Jacks of All Trades who were all underpowered for the points invested. Specializing would have helped the party as a whole. Player squabbles definitely come to play here, when you've been left hanging because you can't convince "the mage" to come help you tend to make your next character as self-sufficient as you can.
I've thought about it a lot and I think I've found a solution to the "problem". Guilds.
It's even nominally realistic!
Guild membership determines what skills, tools and spells you have access to. And since they are colluding and jealous of each other's spheres of influence, the rules are rigidly applied. Worse for the players is the guilds are multi-national.
This forces the old dichotomy back on character creation, even if it does demand a lot of preparation by the GM.
Then, since adventurer is a valid profession in a fantasy setting, there's The Union of Adventurers to deal with. To join you have to be in one of the guilds and you're subject to the union rules. (5 points to the person who comes up with the best MPAA/RIAA type acronym for it).
"Mr Dalf, is that a SWORD? Aren't you a member of the Mage's Guild? Don't guild rules of both the Mage's and Fighter's guilds prohibit you from using that at all? Your fine is forfeiting your share. The rest of the party shall be fined a half share each for not enforcing guild rules while engaged in a Union approved adventure. Mr Baggins, metal armor? As a member of the thieves' er ARCHER'S guild you should know better. Quarter share fine and don't let us catch you wearing it again, perhaps your nephew could use it."
Guild membership is a social advantage costing points. Since multiclassing was possible in the AD&D rules you can be a member of more than one guild, if you can afford the prerequisites of all of them. Remember, this is an ARTIFICIAL means of forcing specialization on the party where the rules don't do it for the GM.
Someday I will have to actually write down what the actual prerequisites are for each guild. I came up with this idea long after I'd GM'd my last fantasy game. That one challenged the player's preconceptions so badly I've never gone back. It was simple. Make languages nationally based instead of racial and eliminate "common". I think it would have been better to declare myself a Jewish witch in inquisition Spain based on the player response...
Update:
It just occurred to me that this also creates some adventure seeds. The Clerical guild is the keeper of the healing and necromantic colleges; with necromantic spells being tightly controlled. A necromancer would be outside the guild and the union and they'd commission parties to eliminate unlicensed use.
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons rules made party creation simpler. The class abilities were complimentary and exclusive. Magic Users sucked at melee, but fighters couldn't cast spells. Both Clerics and Magic Users could use spells, but they were different spells.
So your party needed one of each of the basic classes (fighter, magic user and cleric minimum plus a
Playing GURPS in a fantasy setting broke that. A fully armored knight in the service of God could also be a powerful wizard. At least if the GM gave out enough points... Then there was a lack of distinction between spell casters. If you cast spells, you are a mage. No distinction between Clerics, Magic Users, Illusionists, Druids or even Rangers and Paladins.
No distinction in the rules at least. You can recreate them easily during character creation.
The old AD&D party roles don't go away running GURPS. You still need someone who can swing a melee weapon, you need an offensive spellcaster and a support spellcaster.
Since the rules don't force the distinction, and players being what they are, what I ended up with in GURPS fantasy settings was amazingly homogenous characters. Every one was essentially a fighter/magic user/cleric. Because your points were limited, what we ended up with was party of Jacks of All Trades who were all underpowered for the points invested. Specializing would have helped the party as a whole. Player squabbles definitely come to play here, when you've been left hanging because you can't convince "the mage" to come help you tend to make your next character as self-sufficient as you can.
I've thought about it a lot and I think I've found a solution to the "problem". Guilds.
It's even nominally realistic!
Guild membership determines what skills, tools and spells you have access to. And since they are colluding and jealous of each other's spheres of influence, the rules are rigidly applied. Worse for the players is the guilds are multi-national.
This forces the old dichotomy back on character creation, even if it does demand a lot of preparation by the GM.
Then, since adventurer is a valid profession in a fantasy setting, there's The Union of Adventurers to deal with. To join you have to be in one of the guilds and you're subject to the union rules. (5 points to the person who comes up with the best MPAA/RIAA type acronym for it).
"Mr Dalf, is that a SWORD? Aren't you a member of the Mage's Guild? Don't guild rules of both the Mage's and Fighter's guilds prohibit you from using that at all? Your fine is forfeiting your share. The rest of the party shall be fined a half share each for not enforcing guild rules while engaged in a Union approved adventure. Mr Baggins, metal armor? As a member of the thieves' er ARCHER'S guild you should know better. Quarter share fine and don't let us catch you wearing it again, perhaps your nephew could use it."
Guild membership is a social advantage costing points. Since multiclassing was possible in the AD&D rules you can be a member of more than one guild, if you can afford the prerequisites of all of them. Remember, this is an ARTIFICIAL means of forcing specialization on the party where the rules don't do it for the GM.
Someday I will have to actually write down what the actual prerequisites are for each guild. I came up with this idea long after I'd GM'd my last fantasy game. That one challenged the player's preconceptions so badly I've never gone back. It was simple. Make languages nationally based instead of racial and eliminate "common". I think it would have been better to declare myself a Jewish witch in inquisition Spain based on the player response...
Update:
It just occurred to me that this also creates some adventure seeds. The Clerical guild is the keeper of the healing and necromantic colleges; with necromantic spells being tightly controlled. A necromancer would be outside the guild and the union and they'd commission parties to eliminate unlicensed use.